Tag Archives: Parks On The Air (POTA)

N2YCH’s Top Band POTA Activation Field Report

Many thanks to Conrad (N2YCH) who shares the following field report:


Top Band POTA Activation Field Report

By: Conrad Trautmann (N2YCH)

November 15, 2023

In February 2023, Brian, K3ES, wrote here on QRPer.com about designing and building his own QRP portable random wire antenna he called the VK160 to work on 160 meters to make parks on the air contacts. This was in order to achieve his goal of getting the James F. LaPorta N1CC award where activating on 10 bands at 10 parks is needed. It’s not as easy as it sounds. As an avid parks on the air activator myself wanting to try activating on 160 meters, I built my own antenna based on Brian’s design and used it to get my first contacts ever at a park on the “Top Band.”

The Antenna

Brian used a 9:1 unun that he built himself in his design. Rather than build my own from scratch, I took a short cut and bought a QRPGuys 40m-10m UnUnTenna to use as the starting point for my VK160. Even though it says 40m-10m, it works on 160 meters, as you’ll see.

With shipping, it cost $36.00. It comes with all of the parts you need to assemble the antenna except for the wire. The main thing I liked about the QRPguys design was that the circuit board also doubles as a wire winder, so it’s all self-contained.

I sourced the wire from Davis RF and ordered 200’ of “POLY STEALTH – 26 AWG, 19 0.22000 44.00 STRAND COPPER CLAD STEEL, BLACK PE JACKET.” It cost $50 including shipping. The polyethylene insulation prevents the wire from knotting up. I measured out 144’ for the radiator based on Brian’s design and used the remaining wire as the counterpoise.

The completed antenna

I did a back yard test once it was all assembled and it worked great. For $86, I had created my own VK160. I encourage you to read Brian’s detailed design/build report here.

The POTA Activation – November 14, 2023

Now that I had completed building and testing the antenna, the next challenge was how to actually put it to use at a park. 160 meters doesn’t really come to life until dusk or after dark. In Connecticut, most state parks close at dusk. The park rangers clear the parks to close them at the best time to activate the band. However, there is one park nearby my QTH, the Stuart B. McKinney National Wildlife Refuge, K-0228, that has an annex called the Great Meadows Unit in Stratford with a nice parking lot that is not gated and has no posted hours. I arrived and set up at sunset, around 4:30 pm ET and operated from 5 pm until 6 pm. It gets dark here early in the Northeast US in November.

Another challenge is how to manage and string up 144’ of wire. Brian suggested an inverted V over a tree branch in his write up. There were no trees nearby, so instead I used a Spiderbeam fiberglass pole secured to my Jeep to get the feed point up in the air about 25 feet. I used RG58 cable from the feed point to the radio.

Spiderbeam fiberglass pole supporting VK160

Finally, I used one of my $3.00 Home Depot electric fence posts to secure the far end to keep it tight and up in the air and set up the antenna as a sloper. I laid out the counterpoise on the ground under the sloping wire.

By the time I had all of this set up, it was getting dark. I connected my Elecraft KX3 to the other end of the RG58 cable and to my surprise and delight, I was already receiving stations.

My KX3 has a built-in ATU and one tap of that ATU button and it tuned to 1.0:1. I started the activation right at 5 pm local time and in about 15 minutes, I had six QSO’s on 160 meters.

The PSK Reporter map showed me being received by stations on the dark side of the gray line in the Northeast. It was pretty much what I expected for QRP power on the low frequency. Then, the next ten minutes things were quiet. It appeared I had gotten everyone who could hear me.

Since this is a random wire antenna, it should work on all bands so I decided to test it on 80 meters. Again, the KX3 tuned right up and I got six more QSO’s. I was surprised to see Del, N2NWK from Washington, DC pop up on JT Alert. I have a an alert set for stations calling CQ POTA. Del was also at a park. I called and he answered and we ended up with a park to park. Anyone who knows Del knows that when you hunt him, he’s usually activating at a two-fer, at least. When I checked my hunter log afterwards, I saw four parks listed from him (a four-fer?).

At this point in the activation, I had gotten the ten QSO’s that I needed to call the park activated. I thought, let me try the VK160 on 60 meters. I re-tuned the KX3 and got five more fast QSO’s. The antenna worked great.

Before I packed up, I decided that I really wanted at least ten contacts on 160 meters, which was my original goal. I went back to 160 meters, now close to an hour later than when I began the activation, and easily added five more new QSO’s to the log. Maybe propagation had changed the later/darker it got or some new hams were on the band who weren’t on earlier, but I was satisfied to have gotten more than 10 on the top band.

The Results

Here’s how I did. Green pins are QSO’s on 160 meters, blue pins are 80 meters and the pink ones are 60 meters (click image to enlarge).

Equipment List

Conclusion

The “Top Band” activation was a success! The VK160 worked flawlessly, thank you Brian, K3ES for posting your design and providing the inspiration to activate on 160 meters.

My POTA “My Stats” page now shows 11 digital QSOs on 160 meters that I didn’t have before. I love conquering new challenges and given the challenge of going mobile with an antenna that will actually work and tune up on that low of a frequency at a park that won’t make you leave at sunset, well… that was quite an accomplishment!

Thank you to the 22 hunters (11 on 160 meters) who helped make it a success, including my friend Del, N2NWK in Washington, DC.

Conrad, N2YCH and Del, N2NWK

W6CSN Activates Fort Baker in the Golden Gate National Recreation Area

Many thanks to Matt (W6CSN) who shares the following post  from his blog at W6CSN.Blog:


Fort Baker On The Air

by Matt (W6CSN)

Fort Baker is a former U.S. Army post situated at the north of side of the Golden Gate, opposite Fort Point and adjacent the town of Sausalito, California. The post is now part of the sprawling Golden Gate National Recreation Area (GGNRA) which is also known as K-0647 for POTA.

Many of the good POTA spots in the GGNRA are heavily used for recreation and sightseeing on weekend days such as this, but Cavallo Point is out of the way enough that there was still ample, free parking today. This location offers spectacular views of the Golden Gate Bridge, the city of San Francisco, and Alcatraz and Angel Islands at anchor in San Francisco Bay.

Today the “pull of POTA” was strong as I wanted to get another activation done before the arrival of an anticipated solar storm as well as rains predicted for the coming week.

During the week leading up to this activation the Bay Area has experienced fine weather with mild daytime temperatures and light winds, but driving in, the sound of rigging slapping loudly against the aluminum masts of the sailboats docked in the Presidio Yacht Club marina told me that it was windy down here.

A short series of wooden staircases lead up from the parking area to Battery Yates, named for Captain George Yates of the U.S. Cavalry who fell in the Battle of Little Big Horn in 1876.

The gun battery is a reinforced concrete structure which once sported six rifles that fired a three inch caliber cartridge to provide for naval defense inside of San Francisco Bay. The guns were manned through the middle of World War Two when, by 1943, they had been moved to more strategic locations.

Today I had hoped to use the same steel pipe which supported a fiberglass mast and EFHW in an earlier activation from this spot, but unfortunately the pipe was too thick to get the jaw mount securely attached.

I went with plan B which was to use the pipe railing at the back edge of the gun pit. Being unsure whether or not the galvanized steel railing made any electrical connection to what surely must be rebar embedded in the concrete, I deployed the 17 foot vertical whip with three radials just in case.

Whatever was serving as a counterpoise, it was doing a great job, providing an SWR reading of 1.0 to 1 on the Mountaintopper MTR-4B. This was probably the third activation on this Lithium-Ion battery pack, so the power was down to 3.7 watts, still plenty for a CW activation with a resonant antenna.

The activation was scheduled ahead of time on the POTA web application so all I had to do was just start calling CQ POTA and let the RBN do the spotting. I soon heard from KG6HM from right across the Bay, followed by stations from Washington, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico.

I was starting to think it would be only western states calling in, but the band opened up a bit, bringing N3RT from Delaware. Now we had a proper coast-to-coast activation, and, I bagged a hard-to-get state needed for an informal CW “Worked-All-States” achievement.

By this time, the wind really started to pick up and with the sun so low in the western sky, it was becoming chilly. Satisfied with the 14 QSOs in the log, we packed up, made our way back down the pathway to the car, and then to a fancy coffee house in Sausalito for a nice warm cup.

Equipment Used

73 de W6CSN

Field Report with N5FY: Checking out the new N6ARA MiniSWR (and a sweet 9V battery) at Don Carter State Park!

I am catching up with field reports and videos from last month and, I must admit, it’s fun reliving these activations.

October was such a busy month, it’s all been a bit of a blur.

Because I have a second Thanksgiving meal to prepare this morning for my wife’s family, I need to keep this report short–which won’t be easy because there’s a lot to unpack here– so we’re going to attempt do another Postcard Field Report!

Postcard Report from Don Carter State Park (K-2171)

I mentioned in a previous post that I participated in the W4 SOTA campout last month. .

Part of the fun  of the campout was hanging with my good friend Joshua (N5FY) whom many of you know from his amazing Tufteln antennas and accessories.

On the morning of Friday, October 13, 2023, Joshua and I activated Rocky Mountain (W4G/NG-011), a beautiful 10 point summit along the Appalachian Trail.

That afternoon, we met with Joshua’s family briefly, then planned to head to a pub in Clayton, Georgia, where a number of the W4 SOTA campers were gathering.

Joshua determined we had just enough time to pop by Don Carter State Park (K-2171) for a quick POTA activation and still make it to Clayton in time. As a bonus, Don Carter SP has a number of covered picnic shelters, making set up in the dry quite easy (it was raining at the time).

For this activation, I used my Mountain Topper MTR-3B field kit that I had used during my SOTA activation on Rocky Mountain. In fact, it was the only radio kit I brought with me for activations that day.

Joshua lent me his Tufteln 40/20 meter linked EFHW antenna (we only used the 20 meter portion of it) and I also got to use a few other accessories that were still very new to me:

N6ARA MiniSWR Meter

One was my friend Ara’s latest creation, the MiniSWR meter. Ara (N6ARA) kindly sent me this production unit to test (at no cost to me) earlier in October.

I was very excited about this particular product because a few of my QRP radios lack a built-in SWR meter (my MTR-3B, MTR-5B, TR-35, and SW-3B to name a few). Ara’s MiniSWR meter is so tiny, it’s easy to carry even in my MTR-3B SOTA kit that’s built into a Pelican 1060 waterproof case. (If you’d like more details, I’ll be adding this MTR-3B kit to the Radio Field Kit Gallery soon).

The MiniSWR in action earlier that day on Rocky Mountain.

As with all of Ara’s products, the MiniSWR works brilliantly, is very affordable, and is available as a kit or pre-assembled. Check it out at N6ARA.com!

Rechargeable 9V Batteries

Another new-to-me product was this USB-C rechargeable 9V battery originally recommended by Adam (K6ARK).

Being honest here: this battery sort of blows my mind!

When paired with super efficient QRP radios like my MTR-3B (which uses something like 18mA in receive), one charge will take me through as many as two or three full SOTA/POTA activations!

These batteries are insanely affordable too. You can buy two for $15 and change at Amazon.

When I purchased these, I also bought two 3S packs in a Prime Day deal. These 9V batteries work so well, though, I’ve yet to add PowerPoles to the new 3S packs. I prefer the size and ease of use of these 9V cells.

Set up

Joshua helped me set up in short order. We deployed the 20M EFHW next to the picnic shelter and Joshua kindly lent me his OSMO 2 Action Camera and Anker SoundCore Mini speaker so I could make a video of this impromptu activation. Continue reading Field Report with N5FY: Checking out the new N6ARA MiniSWR (and a sweet 9V battery) at Don Carter State Park!

Lunch break? Time for a rapid SOTA/POTA activation!

by Vince (VE6LK)

As always there are lots of links within the article. Click one! Click them all! Learn all the things! ? Also, it’s with thanks to the management at QRPer.com who give me this outlet for creative writing.

While on business travel in Northern Alberta recently, I found myself with a slow workday and a few hours owed from lunches not taken that week. A quick plan was hatched and out the door I went after ensuring that all at work was going to be fine without me for 2-3 hours. But before I get to that story…

While travelling to and from this site, I’ve made it a mission to activate as many ATNO [All-Time-New-Ones, ie. never-activated parks] as possible within POTA. I plan these 500km trips with some small side journeys to these parks or natural areas and to break up the otherwise long drive along the foothills of the Canadian Rockies up and down the Highway 22 (aka. Cowboy Trail) corridor. It’s truly a lovely drive and I don’t mind it in the least.

Now back to my late-day lunch break adventure…

With the nearest park to me (VE-3162, Whitecourt Mountain) already activated but only on phone, I figured I’d activate it on CW and do more QSOs than the other activator just for good measure. I can’t believe that a park this close to a townsite had only one activation before I got there to activate it.

If that isn’t enough, it’s also a SOTA entity [VE6/ST-102] with a broad and not-steep slope making the activation zone quite wide. On top of that I can do this two-fer as a drive-up! This worked in my favour as I parked my truck within the activation zone! This SOTA entity had been done a couple of times already so I knew that electrical noise would be my nemesis.

For those of you that may have disremembered, I’m in shape -round- and that shape doesn’t easily climb summits, so a drive-up is totally my kind of summit. But I had to get a move on as there were only two hours left on the Zulu timeclock.  At my hotel room I had more gear, but being nervous nelly that I am at times, I do not leave my KX3 in the room unless there’s a safe. Given that the KX3 gets lonely without companions, I ensure that it always has a battery, antenna and key along for the ride so they keep each other happy as can be 🙂 I had just enough of my portable kit with me to make this happen.

Continue reading Lunch break? Time for a rapid SOTA/POTA activation!

Winner of the ARRL POTA Book Prize Package Giveaway!

Last week, we announced an ARRL POTA Book prize package that included:

We had over 240 entries in this giveaway and used a random number generator to pick our winner.

The winner is Ernie Antczak (W3ETE)!

Thank you all for participating!

Please join me in congratulating Ernie for being the lucky winner!

A have a few other giveaways scheduled for the next year, so if you didn’t win this one, stay tuned!

Elecraft KH1: A Quickie Pedestrian Mobile POTA Activation!

Thursday, November 9, 2023 was a typical “dad taxi” day for me.

By the time I got around to doing a POTA activation that afternoon (which was always on the docket) it was within 30 minutes of when I needed to pick up my daughters.

Fortunately, the Blue Ridge Parkway Folk Art Center was en route to town.

I had planned that day to pair up my Elecraft KH1 with a random wire antenna, but looking at the time, I realized that was being a little ambitious–the few minutes to deploy and pack up the antenna would cut into the activation.

Instead (since I had just received my KH1 logging tray/cover) I decided to put it to the test with a real pedestrian mobile activation using the KH1, its  whip antenna, the logging sheets I printed/cut, and the teeny space pen included with the logging tray. In theory, this all looked doable, but in practice I didn’t know if I would actually be able to log on a tray attached to the side of my radio!

I had planned to use my Zoom H1n recorder for the KH1 audio since I would be making an activation video (see below), but frankly, I simply didn’t have time to set it up. I had to make do with the KH1 wee speaker.

Speaking of the speaker…

After playing with the speaker for a few weeks now, I’ve found that it sounds much better when I run the KH1 with a wide CW filter.

I’d always assumed being a low-fidelity 1″ speaker that narrow audio would be best, but I was wrong about that. In the field, I tinker with the filter and attenuation settings for the best audio balance.

Still, it’s not perfect (the speaker is really a “bonus” feature) but it’s much improved over my initial POTA activation.

Of course, I would have been using earphones had I not been recording the activation on camera. Via earphones, the KH1 audio is excellent!

Gear:

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On The Air

I hopped on the air, started calling CQ POTA, and the stations started rolling in. Continue reading Elecraft KH1: A Quickie Pedestrian Mobile POTA Activation!

KX2/AX1 Travel: Two Quick POTA Activations on the South Carolina coast!

SC Coast: A Postcard Field Report

When life gets busy (it is now) I don’t always have the time to produce a full field report. This is especially the case when I have, not one, but two field reports and two activation videos!

This “Postcard” field report covers two activations on the evening of October 2, 2023. At the time, I was staying on the coast of South Carolina for a night. (You might recall I activated Lee State Park with friends earlier that afternoon.)

Instead of producing two full-format field reports, this will be one report with two activations.

Note that I used the same gear for both of these activations.

Gear:

Note: All Amazon links are affiliate links that support QRPer.com at no cost to you.

Myrtle Beach State Park (K-2907)

I arrived at my hotel in South Myrtle Beach around 17:30 local. I checked in (thank you, Hampton Inn for the room upgrade!), dropped off my bag in the room, then immediately made my way to what turned out to be my first of two parks.

As I purchased my park ticket at the entrance gate, the park employee told me that my ticket would also allow me into Huntington State Park (just 20 minutes down the road) until end of day.

At that point, I had no intention of hitting a second park…but of course I just couldn’t resist the temptation of that free entry!

I know that some South Carolina parks are picky about antenna deployments, etc. so I stuck with my low-impact, low-profile combo of the Elecraft KX2 and AX1. It doesn’t disturb the trees, the ground, nor any park visitors.

I parked at the pier and set up at a picnic area under the trees nearby. Early October is very much off-season on the coast, so the park was relatively quiet.

There was no one else in the picnic area, so I had the place to myself. Continue reading KX2/AX1 Travel: Two Quick POTA Activations on the South Carolina coast!

A welcome POTA layover with friends at Lee State Park in South Carolina

On September 30, 2023, my uncle Reggie passed away at the age of 83. I was incredibly fond of him. His funeral was to take place in Georgetown, South Carolina on Tuesday, October 3rd.

The funeral time was confirmed on Sunday evening (Oct 1), so I made all of my travel plans that night. I decided to leave early Monday morning and drive to Myrtle Beach where I’d reserved a hotel room for one night. I’d then attend the funeral the following day and drive back to my home in the mountains. Round trip, this would amount to about 12 hours of driving.

This, of course, was a pretty somber reason to take a road trip–although it would be nice to spend time with my SC family. I wanted to make the most of my travels and fit in a little “radio therapy” along the way. I glanced over the POTA map for a park that might make for a nice break from travels.

Before hitting the sack Sunday evening, I remembered that many months ago Keith (KY4KK) told me to give him a heads-up anytime I planned to pass by Florence, SC. I knew that Florence would be a simple detour on my journey, so I reached out to Keith and asked if he and his POTA buddies Tommy (N4GS) and Steve (W4JM) might, by some chance, be available for a quick POTA activation. Of course, this was very late notice.

Keith wrote back and recommended that I activate Lee State Park–he and Tommy were both available but, unfortunately, Steve had other plans.

Monday morning, I hit the road and arrived at Lee State Park in the early afternoon.

Lee State Park (K-2905)

I pulled into the park driveway and was greeted by a number of Halloween displays. Evidently, the park staff loves decorating for holidays.

At first glance, this looks like a POTA activator that never never got their ten logged.

I pulled into the visitor’s center parking lot and immediately met Keith and Tommy.

After a quick greeting, Keith said, “Thomas, our job here is to get you on the air as smoothly as possible so you can continue your trip.”

Keith, KY4KK (left) Tommy, N4GS (right)

Herein lies what I love about amateur radio and POTA specifically: even though Keith, Tommy, and I had only just met in person, they were instant friends.

I must say, Lee State Park is the perfect POTA park; there are loads of tall trees, covered picnic areas, open spaces, ample parking, and ham-friendly staff. It just doesn’t get better than this!

We walked to a large covered picnic area and Keith suggested that we deploy his 40 meter EFHW antenna.

I agreed without hesitation!

Unlike me, Keith is adept at using a slingshot to deploy his antennas.

As I started setting up the radio, Keith aimed his slingshot and snagged a really high branch on the first go. This 40M EFHW was being deployed as a vertical!

I decided to bring along my Penntek TR-45L on this trip. I’m glad I did: it was ideal for this sort of POTA activation! Continue reading A welcome POTA layover with friends at Lee State Park in South Carolina

Guest Post: W8GM’s CW QRP Journey Begins

Many thanks to David (W8GM) for sharing the following guest post:


My CW QRP Journey Begins

by David (W8GM)

It is not really a beginning but for some reason it feels like it.

This a summary of my second ever CW QRP POTA activation which includes a summary of my radio path to this point and a unique encounter that shows how amateur radio operators can be so separated by distance but still somehow manage to build and maintain a sense of community.

Life can sometimes be so strange. I had an interest in amateur radio some 30 years ago but what stopped me? Morse Code.

No way would I learn a dead language so I could talk on a radio! Fast forward to the fall of 2021 when I discovered there was no longer a code requirement to become licensed.

It happened fast. I took the tests, explored the bands from 70cm to 80m and simply felt my way around amateur radio. I discovered POTA and I activated my first park on January 2nd, 2022. I have enjoyed camping, hiking and the outdoors my entire life and I realized that POTA had the potential to bring the outdoors and amateur radio together. However, I was simply a weekend POTA warrior. Most of my activations were from a car or sitting at a picnic table while I was camping.

During this time, I discovered websites such as QRPer.com and The Long Island CW Club and I watched oodles of videos of people combining hiking or remote camping with small radios and practicing amateur radio. I was jealous. However, I knew I only needed to put the pieces of the puzzle together and I could be like those YouTubers I was jealous of.

So really, this is where the journey began. I joined LICW completely ignorant of what a wealth of CW information and education this club offers. I soaked up a lot of that education and continued to follow the QRPers of the world.

Unfortunately, in June of 2022, I took off a full year from amateur radio. But in July of 2023 I was able to return, and I resumed my QRP goals. Once again LICW was there to support me and what follows is the story of my second ever CW QRP POTA activation.

Activation time

I pulled into my parking spot thinking “Wow, I’ve been coming here for over 15 years.” That thought quickly disappeared when I looked at my dash and saw it was 26 degrees Fahrenheit. Southwest Michigan’s first cold week of fall. I grabbed my pack and started heading to my secret spot.

My plan was to set up and then explore the woods most of the morning. Hiking around would keep me warm through the cold morning and I’d try to play radio in the afternoon after it had warmed up a bit. I arrived at my spot and, once again, I found it undisturbed. My leftover firewood was still sitting there in a neat pile. Over the last 15 years I have come here countless times, for as short as an hour and as long as 3 days and never once has anyone disturbed my little 20-foot patch of earth.

I set up my coffee kit, chair, antenna, and radio kit. I used a Packtenna 40m EFHW for an antenna and hung it in a sloper configuration. I did it just like all those QRPing YouTubers do it. I tossed a weighted throw line in the air and had the high end up about 40 feet. The radio was an Icom IC-705 and I put an Elecraft T1 ATU tuner in line for some extra insurance. I plugged in my cwmorse.us paddle and battery pack and I was good to go. But first I headed off to do some exploring before I returned and powered up the radio.

After getting back from exploring, I was ready for some coffee and that was made next. I powered up the radio and thought I’d try starting out on 10 meters. I had learned that a huge advantage of CW is you can be auto spotted on the POTA page. Cell reception at my spot is hit and miss. Some days it is there and others you have nothing but SOS on your phone.

No worries about spotting today. CW wins again.

I called CQ for quite some time and was starting to get nervous until a faint station broke through. And of course, it was the last thing a rookie CW operator needs. The call sign was wrong, or I was failing. Continue reading Guest Post: W8GM’s CW QRP Journey Begins

The Parks on the Air Book! Coupon code for free shipping & a giveaway!

If you haven’t heard yet, there’s a new book by the ARRL called “The Parks On The Air Book.” Here’s the description from the ARRL site:

The Parks on the Air® Book explores the process of activating a park unit and hunting those activations. Through the experiences of 14 operators, it offers advice and motivation for taking your radio out to the park and becoming active in the growing POTA community. Full-color format!

I’m honored to be one of the 14 operators who has an essay in this fine book.

Mine is called, “The Art of the Self-Sufficient QRP Field Kit.

A number of my POTA friends also contributed essays in this book. It was great fun reading through these.

I think the editors did a fine job pulling together a wide variety of perspectives in this book–not only focusing on activating, but also hunting. I also love the fact that the articles have a more human-interest focus; more context about why the authors enjoy POTA and how they make it their own. This is not a dry read…quite the opposite!

I should mention that the ARRL pulled this together by teaming up with the Parks On The Air crew.

Click here to read the full press release (.docx).

Click here to read sample pages from the book (.PDF).

Coupon Code for Free Shipping!

As a contributor of this book, the ARRL have given me a coupon code to share with my readers and subscribers; this will give you free shipping.

At checkout, simply enter my callsign as a coupon code: K4SWL

Click here to purchase on the ARRL website.

The list price of the book is $22.95, and ARRL members can buy it for $19.95. I feel like this is a great value and an excellent read despite the fact they invited me to contribute! 🙂

A POTA Package Giveaway!

The ARRL have also given me a little prize package to send to a lucky QRPer.com reader. We’ll run a little contest this weekend that’s open to anyone and everyone interested in POTA.

Stay tuned for more details!